Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 21:24:05 GMT -8
Re the current kerfuffle ... indulge me a moment here.
A long time a recently much maligned KBOO staff member once tried to explain conflict at KBOO to me by saying that by definition, KBOO attracts those who don't think they're being listened to or helped by mainstream media. So everyone arrives thinking they've got something that needs to be said, or with a chip on their shoulder. According to this current staffer, this is the source of much of the historical conflict at KBOO. (can't believe I'm paraphrasing her now but it's relevant)
In most respects I've lost all respect for her, but in this regard she's right. We all have bruised feelings, bruised egos, and it's very easy to start arguing about this or that. We all are the underdogs and we're all trying to get some respect and be validated that we're right about what we're passionate about.
In this crazy last six months, I've had amazing conversations with people whom I'd written off as crazy. It's been unpredictable and a bit nuts.
In this current moment where a group of us are in opposition to the people running KBOO, as all ex-KBOO volunteers etc we're still quite a lot like KBOO and still have all the chips on our shoulders that we arrived at KBOO with, long before we got pissed off enough to leave. So it's way too easy to turn on each other and fight to the death about who is a conspiracy theorist, and who was technically right or wrong in every past tussle.
None of us are perfect, and I'm asking that we all take a deep breath and not implode over small details. Nothing would make the KKK crowd happier than to see infighting among this blog destroy any opposition to the current KBOO cabal.
|
|
|
|
Post by partyhard on Oct 2, 2013 8:50:01 GMT -8
Re the current kerfuffle ... indulge me a moment here. A long time a recently much maligned KBOO staff member once tried to explain conflict at KBOO to me by saying that by definition, KBOO attracts those who don't think they're being listened to or helped by mainstream media. So everyone arrives thinking they've got something that needs to be said, or with a chip on their shoulder. According to this current staffer, this is the source of much of the historical conflict at KBOO. (can't believe I'm paraphrasing her now but it's relevant) In most respects I've lost all respect for her, but in this regard she's right. the reason? controlling people go out of their way to recruit the misunderstood, the loners etc these people are less likely to think critically about the only org who accepted them, etc etc without judgement this so called "acceptance" comes at a price it sounds all lovey "we welcome everyone" it's actually predatory and sleazy |
|
|
|
Post by Hadrian Micciche on Oct 2, 2013 16:32:19 GMT -8
Sorry Ed. We'll not have peace at any price here. I don't tolerate bullying when someone else is targeted -- as were many board members and several staff -- and I certainly do not tolerate it when it's directed my way. Who's agenda is served by John's comments quoted below? John tries to justify his fuck-up -- with lies -- while needlessly denigrating my efforts to bring accountability to the board. Unfortunately for John, that meant holding him accountable as well. Challenging John's petty, self-serving, retaliatory and lying-arse comments -- with facts -- does not help the KKK crowd . Not challenging them does. ----------------------------------------- Sept 8, 2013 22:53:42 GMT -8 John Mackey said: I am LAUGHING as I read this. Hadrian wants to go on record that the corporation is acting wrongly, and is unhappy with the rest of the board for not supporting him! In October 2012 I found that KBOO was NOT operating their emergency alert system correctly as legally required and putting the listening audience at risk if an emergency event were to occur. I asked to go on record to discuss the issue - even if that was only to confirm that it was going to be addressed and made legal. Hadrian led a charge to remove me from the board for bringing up the issue on the record! Hadrian, you are pathetic! operationfreespeech.boards.net/post/419 |
|
|
|
Post by Xheba on Oct 2, 2013 17:29:30 GMT -8
How did you find out that KBOO was not operating the EAS correctly John?
|
|
|
|
Post by lurker on Oct 2, 2013 17:57:20 GMT -8
In this current moment where a group of us are in opposition to the people running KBOO, as all ex-KBOO volunteers etc we're still quite a lot like KBOO We are? Not all of us have been at KBOO in a formal capacity. Where do "conspiracy theorists" come into it? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 21:41:15 GMT -8
1) Hadrian, we won't have peace at any price. But we also won't insist on perfection at any cost. This reminds me of why you were ultimately ineffective as a board member, you knew what needed to be done but you pissed of everyone you needed to reach by what you said and how you said it in some board meetings and at a crucial governance meeting. Being right doesn't always mean you get the right thing done, you have to work with people without making them your enemy to get things changed. I agree with your complaints but criticize your methods as ineffective and occasionally destructive to your own goals. I like you but wish you could see how you've shot yourself in the foot. Your complaint about John on the board, open vs closed sessions and what he should or shouldn't have done ... haven't you paid attention? KBOO don't give a fuck about loyalty of duty. They told you that to your face a few meetings later. For you to be hanging on to a grudge about proper board member procedure now is like re-arranging the deck chairs.
By the way, I wouldn't have had any easier time being part of this board. I've got my own strengths and weaknesses. But I see you being too absolutist to be effective so I'm saying so.
2) Lurker, some people whom in the past I've dismissed as conspiracy theorists (911 truthers etc) are now able to see clearly now, at least with regards to the mess at KBOO. I'm making a point of drinking coffee with people who have pissed me off in the past when I see that they recognize that even for a place like KBOO, things have gone way too far.
And thanks for reminding me not everyone in the conversation was a volunteer or staffer.
3) I think that John's legacy at KBOO isn't fully written, as he hasn't until now shared any of his perspective. Some on staff thought he was horrible to work with and were looking for a way to get him fired for years. Others see him as a someone who was doing a good job at what he knew (engineering) and was a victim of the inner circle hatred. I've heard the same events told completely differently by different observers and can't be a jury. But I'm glad he had the balls to call the FCC. And it's time that the entire story about the illegal actions of Conch, Ani and crew are boldly put out there. To me, it's not that important that John was kicked off the board. It's very relevant that he LOST HIS JOB during the staff collective, and that it most likely was done in a way that was unethical at best, and possibly illegal.
|
|
|
|
Post by redtail on Oct 2, 2013 23:17:02 GMT -8
1) Hadrian, we won't have peace at any price. But we also won't insist on perfection at any cost. This reminds me of why you were ultimately ineffective as a board member, you knew what needed to be done but you pissed of everyone you needed to reach by what you said and how you said it in some board meetings and at a crucial governance meeting. Being right doesn't always mean you get the right thing done, you have to work with people without making them your enemy to get things changed. I agree with your complaints but criticize your methods as ineffective and occasionally destructive to your own goals. I like you but wish you could see how you've shot yourself in the foot. Your complaint about John on the board, open vs closed sessions and what he should or shouldn't have done ... haven't you paid attention? KBOO don't give a fuck about loyalty of duty. They told you that to your face a few meetings later. For you to be hanging on to a grudge about proper board member procedure now is like re-arranging the deck chairs. By the way, I wouldn't have had any easier time being part of this board. I've got my own strengths and weaknesses. But I see you being too absolutist to be effective so I'm saying so. 2) Lurker, some people whom in the past I've dismissed as conspiracy theorists (911 truthers etc) are now able to see clearly now, at least with regards to the mess at KBOO. I'm making a point of drinking coffee with people who have pissed me off in the past when I see that they recognize that even for a place like KBOO, things have gone way too far.And thanks for reminding me not everyone in the conversation was a volunteer or staffer. 3) I think that John's legacy at KBOO isn't fully written, as he hasn't until now shared any of his perspective. Some on staff thought he was horrible to work with and were looking for a way to get him fired for years. Others see him as a someone who was doing a good job at what he knew (engineering) and was a victim of the inner circle hatred. I've heard the same events told completely differently by different observers and can't be a jury. But I'm glad he had the balls to call the FCC. And it's time that the entire story about the illegal actions of Conch, Ani and crew are boldly put out there. To me, it's not that important that John was kicked off the board. It's very relevant that he LOST HIS JOB during the staff collective, and that it most likely was done in a way that was unethical at best, and possibly illegal. "This reminds me of why you were ultimately ineffective as a board member, you knew what needed to be done but you pissed of everyone you needed to reach by what you said and how you said it in some board meetings and at a crucial governance meeting" Um, hello, the reason he was 'ineffective' was most of the board was part of Ani's sekrit cult not acting in good faith. "some people whom in the past I've dismissed as conspiracy theorists (911 truthers etc) are now able to see clearly now, at least with regards to the mess at KBOO. I'm making a point of drinking coffee with people who have pissed me off in the past when I see that they recognize that even for a place like KBOO, things have gone way too far." You're not drinking coffee, you're drinking Kool-aid. 911 "truth" is a scam by Alex Jones, Richard Gage and Larouche Greenies. Anyone still part of it are either scammers or too stupid to live. Did they tell you how the Jews are behind the attacks? Sweet Lord Jesus, you're fucked. They're taking you for a ride and your paying for the gas.  "I think that John's legacy at KBOO isn't fully written, as he hasn't until now shared any of his perspective. " I'll agree. Pity he's been slow to answer questions about his perspective. "And it's time that the entire story about the illegal actions of Conch, Ani and crew are boldly put out there." But according to him that includes Fitch. Not buying that. "To me, it's not that important that John was kicked off the board. It's very relevant that he LOST HIS JOB during the staff collective, and that it most likely was done in a way that was unethical at best, and possibly illegal. " It's ALL important. Because they're running a scam on the public. Playing people off is part of a scam. Getting people to do their dirty work by setting against each other. All part of the scam. I think you mean well, but you've got a broken bullshit detector. Talk to people fine. Journalists talk to people. But check their story against facts and ask critical questions, too. Just because they claim to suddenly see like light doesn't mean jack if they don't act like it. Talk is cheap. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 8:57:40 GMT -8
"Um, hello, the reason he was 'ineffective' was most of the board was part of Ani's sekrit cult not acting in good faith." Redtail, had he done things differently he would have remained on the board, censured but still able to fight and perhaps keep Adrian from being summoned from nowhere and seated (hmm, think about that one). Had he not pissed people off HOW he spoke, acting like a prima donna and lecturing them, brush would have been able to slowly calm things down and there might have been a board meeting instead of a lynch mob. I'm not saying that Ani's sekrit cult wasn't/isn't a huge problem (THE problem), but to change things (if they could have been changed) you have to know how to work the politics of the moment. Clearly Hadrian failed to read the situation and he was ineffective. "You're not drinking coffee, you're drinking Kool-aid. 911 "truth" is a scam by Alex Jones, Richard Gage and Larouche Greenies. Anyone still part of it are either scammers or too stupid to live. Did they tell you how the Jews are behind the attacks? Sweet Lord Jesus, you're fucked. They're taking you for a ride and your paying for the gas. " Redtail, that was totally out of line. I know the difference between coffee and kool aide. I happen to know a lot about the 911 truthers etc. I personally know the person who left City Bikes because of Timrud, participated in online arguments with Joe Anybody and his pal Walsh, I'm often at events where the picture you found was taken (it was an event at the MJCC), I've been defamed by lunatic anti-Israel activists (especially those at KBOO) while at the same time being a leader of J Street and being harassed by the right wing in the Jewish community, I've been to lectures and meetings where the origins of hate groups from both the far right and the far left has been discussed by in detail by the Hate Crimes Coalition, and I've acted after a FBI terrorism warning to look out for a particular lunatic who threatened Portland synagogues while moving to Oregon from California. Every Jewish organization in town was on alert with posters and people with cell phones posted at every door for two months. So don't lecture me about what's dangerous and who's a lunatic. "I'll agree. Pity he's been slow to answer questions about his perspective." See. We can find something to agree on. "It's ALL important. Because they're running a scam on the public. Playing people off is part of a scam. Getting people to do their dirty work by setting against each other. All part of the scam." The problem here is that people who have been co-dependent on KBOO now are realizing it. Do you embrace the change or do you keep shoving their past mistakes in their face? Any motion in the right direction should be encouraged, not met with a slap in the face. "Talk is cheap."
Sure is. So is blogging. How about coffee? |
|
|
|
Post by Here we go again on Oct 3, 2013 9:22:02 GMT -8
I happen to know a lot about the 911 truthers etc. I personally know the person who left City Bikes because of Timrud, participated in online arguments with Joe Anybody and his pal Walsh, I'm often at events where the picture you found was taken (it was an event at the MJCC), I've been defamed by lunatic anti-Israel activists (especially those at KBOO) while at the same time being a leader of J Street and being harassed by the right wing in the Jewish community, I've been to lectures and meetings where the origins of hate groups from both the far right and the far left has been discussed by in detail by the Hate Crimes Coalition, and I've acted after a FBI terrorism warning to look out for a particular lunatic who threatened Portland synagogues while moving to Oregon from California. Every Jewish organization in town was on alert with posters and people with cell phones posted at every door for two months. So don't lecture me about what's dangerous and who's a lunatic. Yet you're act like you need another lecture. This. So much THIS. |
|
|
|
Post by redtail on Oct 3, 2013 9:57:40 GMT -8
Clearly Hadrian failed to read the situation and he was ineffective. There was no way to be effective in a rigged game. That's why it's a rigged game. Say he did everything you suggested. They'd have just done something else. The only thing he could have done was resign in protest. Oh wait. That is EXACTLY what he told them he would do. Bluntly telling you're in danger is out of line? Okay, won't bother next time. Clearly you don't. If you think you can sit down and talk to them safely, you don't know shit about the "truthers". You know all about and you haven't figured out "truthers" are a front? I personally know someone who was conned by these clowns while studying at PSU. Not when there is zero evidence for this so called change. All there's evidence of is they convinced you they've changed their ways, somehow without causing a political explosion at KBOO. The past 'mistakes'(including criminal or actionable behavior) aren't something you can hand-wave. They would require very public apologetic statements. Until that happens, you ain't got shit. Want to know what seeing the light...or at least the threat of prison...then coming clean looks like? Read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rathbunwww.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/Dude, you just admitted to socializing with "truthers" aka closet anti-semites. What the hell makes you think I'm going to have coffee with you? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 10:02:55 GMT -8
So sorry to read your posts. I think there was an earlier time when one of the admins was suggesting that people needed to chill a bit.
If this is where OFS is headed, it will be just as useless at KBOO. At least the yellow blog was fun.
Sorry you won't back down from being so negative. You really don't need to worry about me, I'll be just fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by redtail on Oct 3, 2013 11:36:11 GMT -8
So sorry to read your posts. I think there was an earlier time when one of the admins was suggesting that people needed to chill a bit. If this is where OFS is headed, it will be just as useless at KBOO. At least the yellow blog was fun. Sorry you won't back down from being so negative. You really don't need to worry about me, I'll be just fine. Hmm...so you have a disagreement with one person and write off the whole forum? Okay. |
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Oct 3, 2013 11:55:00 GMT -8
So sorry to read your posts. I think there was an earlier time when one of the admins was suggesting that people needed to chill a bit. Someone called? Useless at what? Our purpose is to educate. To make information available so people can make informed choices about KBOO in particular and the alternative media community in general. The option to organize with others is also there, but it's an option, not a requirement. My reading of redtail's comments is less negativity and more frustration. Parts of what you're saying don't make sense. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning on how Hadrian could have been more effective. Once he knew he was dealing with less than honest people, his primary goal should be extraction with an eye for self preservation. He did that admirably, imo. Do you mean he should have known sooner he was being played? |
|
|
|
Post by Hadrian Micciche on Oct 3, 2013 12:27:35 GMT -8
For you to be hanging on to a grudge about proper board member procedure now is like re-arranging the deck chairs. grievances and tit-for-tat pettiness.
John's false-equivalencies and your imaginative claims about grudges won't change the facts Ed. John has a grievance against how he was treated at KBOO, and part of that is about how he was treated by the board. I can only speak to the latter. When someone says something should not be done, and does it, what might he expect? When someone then lies about what he did and why, what might he expect? Again, there is no conflict between John and I. The conflict is between John and his own words.
|
|
|
|
Post by Comrade Red on Oct 7, 2013 9:47:23 GMT -8
No. NO. NO.
We will not, nor will ever be, giving the benefit of the doubt to groups with Holocaust deniers. Never.
As admin said, this board is a place to share information so people can make choices. It's also a safe place for people to tell their stories without fear of retaliation.
If we learn any member has been using this forum or their association to share information with these people, they'll be banhammered into another galaxy.
Years ago while protesting cult activity I talked with many Scientologists online. Most convos were, frankly, flame wars. A few were civil. But no matter how civil or reasoned the scilon could be, I would NEVER go have coffee with one. Not unless they left the cult and could prove it.
We strongly disagree with Ed's tactic of socializing with the "truther" cult unless it's former members speaking out about them. Same goes for the Kbots. The only reason a cult member wants to see you face to face is to gather information to share with the cult. This is almost certainly the case. Otherwise these people would come tell their stories themselves.
We've appreciated Ed's contributions, but these actions are reckless and we don't advise anyone to imitate them.
If a Kbot has really "seen the light", they can talk about it themselves. But if they're a "truther" they better be prepared to answer some tough questions.
|
|
